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    Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

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    Chris

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    Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:24 pm

    5 Island
    4 Mutavault
    4 River of Tears
    4 Secluded Glen
    3 Watery Grave
    3 Sunken Ruins
    1 Swamp
    2 Mistbind Clique
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Vendilion Clique
    4 Ancestral Vision
    4 Bitterblossom
    2 Cryptic Command
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Spell Snare
    3 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Doom Blade
    2 Thoughtseize
    SB: 3 Deathmark
    SB: 3 Flashfreeze
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 3 Damnation
    SB: 2 Dragon's Claw

    TS vs Mistbind Clique? trying a 2 2 split, but mistbind helps gain tempo back against zoo. Also I know I was heavily in favor of EE over damnation early in the season but the rise of doran/ midrange means that there is still alot of value in wrath of god.

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:36 pm

    One thing you may want to consider is changing the doom blades to either deathmarks. They obviously suck in the mirror, but I would be more worried about zoo. Besides, there aren't really any creatures you can kill with doom blade that won't die to deathmark. Ben and I were also talking about adding firespout to the deck.
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    Chris

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:44 pm

    I've tried and don't dislike the red version, but the manabase makes it take alot of damage for essentially gaining access to lightning bolt and one side of firespout. Damnation and doomblade/ deathmark aren't much worse.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  jdoucette24 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:24 pm

    play smother
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    M.C. LOUD

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  M.C. LOUD on Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:31 pm

    How about U/W/b fae?

    Path to Exile is good, but I need maybe one more card to want to try this out. Any ideas?
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    Chris

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:34 pm

    jdoucette24 wrote:play smother

    Is killing bob really more important than baneslayer?
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Winterhalter on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:15 pm

    Chris wrote:
    jdoucette24 wrote:play smother

    Is killing bob really more important than baneslayer?

    Yes.
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Winterhalter on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:15 pm

    NERVO22 wrote:How about U/W/b fae?

    Path to Exile is good, but I need maybe one more card to want to try this out. Any ideas?

    Who is this? Why do people have weird names?

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:54 am

    It's Dumpley.
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    adamt

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  adamt on Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:08 am

    Winterhalter wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    jdoucette24 wrote:play smother

    Is killing bob really more important than baneslayer?

    Yes.

    i second this... as well as killing hexmages
    an unanswered bob keeps DDT (DDepths/Thopter) in games they have no business being in.
    in the online dailies ive been seeing a lot more bobs in zoo decks too.

    when we were testing on Wed, smother was a HOUSE
    it kills everything in Zoo (outside of BSA, but not too many people are playing rubin zoo lately bk it loses to DDT)... and even then you have Deathmarks out of the sideboard for BSA. they shouldn't be able to cast a cmc 5 creature that easily against you anyhow.

    The red version has been good to me lately...

    Here's what I was testing on Wed:

    4 Bitterblossom

    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Vendillion Clique
    3 Mistbind Clique

    4 Mana Leak
    4 Smother
    3 Spell Snare
    3 Cryptic Command

    4 Ancestral Visions
    3 Umezewa's Jitte

    4 Secluded Glen
    4 Mutavault
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Watery Grave
    5 Islands
    2 Steam Vents
    1 Blood Crypt
    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Misty Rainforest

    Sideboard:
    4 Extirpate
    3 Firespout
    4 Deathmark
    4 Thoughtsieze


    4 Smothers main has been really good for me. Hits Confidant and Hexmage and EVERYTHING in Domain Zoo. I had Lightning Bolts in their slot but just found that Smothers are better against Domain Zoo (ie killing Goyf or KnightOfReliq). The ability to go to the dome is nice occasionally but...

    The creeping tar pit has been a 1 of and are pretty damn good against DDT but you already have a really good game against. I'd much rather have them over the ugly 1/2 River Of Tears that never let me cast what I want when I want to on my own turn. perhaps it could become the new worldwake common black land that exiles graveyards..

    Firespouts have been amazing vs Zoo and have been easy enough to play on turn 3 consistently manabase wise (with them in your hand obv). With 4 Deathmark/4 Smother also in after boarding the only thing you have to do is make sure your opener has a good amount of removal or counters and if you live through the first 5 turns you are usually golden. I just found that without red in the deck, it's hard to live long enough vs Domain zoo to stabilize. Damnation just always would come in for me a turn or two too late where I was already at 7/8 by the time i could cast and just die the next turn to tribal flames and a burn spell that i couldn't stop bk i tapped out for Damnation. Firespout hits earilier when I'm still at 12/14 or so.

    Scapeshift as usual is pretty easy as long as you play well and don't keep bad hands (and unless they are running some super tech against just fairies (unlikely) all they are bringing in is negates)

    Elves is a tricky matchup, but if you play it slow and make sure you have smothers/mana leaks/sprites in your opener you have some game and can hopefully stop the key pieces.

    My two questions to pose are:

    firespout x3 or spell snare x3 main?
    spell snares are generally good as against almost the whole field every deck has cmc 2 cards, but my feeling lately has been that spell snares really only help you against the decks you already pretty handily beat (ie DarkDepthsThopter and Scapeshift. Firespouts are dead against those decks (unless they cant combo and try to go beatdown) but help you shore up your toughest matchup, 1 drop/domain zoo. I'm playing in the extended tournament in RI on Saturday and if the field looks like a sea of Zoo im mainboarding Spouts. Spellsnares out the board should be fine..

    Deathmark or Threads of Disloyalty in the s/b?
    if the zoo decks aren't running pridemage, stealing a goyf or knight is a HOUSE. threads also steals Marit Lage tokens and other random smaller stuff (meddling mage =)
    deathmark just kills things for less mana and its only downside is that it doesn't kill kird ape.
    I'm leaning towards deathmarks here..
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    adamt

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  adamt on Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:22 pm

    channelfireball just posted their pdf zine for Oakland where they have an article talking about the DDT/Fae matchup.

    read it here:

    http://strategy.channelfireball.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/cfmag1.pdf
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    Chris

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Chris on Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:51 pm

    adamt wrote:
    Winterhalter wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    jdoucette24 wrote:play smother

    Is killing bob really more important than baneslayer?

    Yes.

    i second this... as well as killing hexmages
    an unanswered bob keeps DDT (DDepths/Thopter) in games they have no business being in.
    in the online dailies ive been seeing a lot more bobs in zoo decks too.

    when we were testing on Wed, smother was a HOUSE
    it kills everything in Zoo (outside of BSA, but not too many people are playing rubin zoo lately bk it loses to DDT)... and even then you have Deathmarks out of the sideboard for BSA. they shouldn't be able to cast a cmc 5 creature that easily against you anyhow.

    The red version has been good to me lately...

    Here's what I was testing on Wed:

    4 Bitterblossom

    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Vendillion Clique
    3 Mistbind Clique

    4 Mana Leak
    4 Smother
    3 Spell Snare
    3 Cryptic Command

    4 Ancestral Visions
    3 Umezewa's Jitte

    4 Secluded Glen
    4 Mutavault
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Watery Grave
    5 Islands
    2 Steam Vents
    1 Blood Crypt
    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Misty Rainforest

    Sideboard:
    4 Extirpate
    3 Firespout
    4 Deathmark
    4 Thoughtsieze


    4 Smothers main has been really good for me. Hits Confidant and Hexmage and EVERYTHING in Domain Zoo. I had Lightning Bolts in their slot but just found that Smothers are better against Domain Zoo (ie killing Goyf or KnightOfReliq). The ability to go to the dome is nice occasionally but...

    The creeping tar pit has been a 1 of and are pretty damn good against DDT but you already have a really good game against. I'd much rather have them over the ugly 1/2 River Of Tears that never let me cast what I want when I want to on my own turn. perhaps it could become the new worldwake common black land that exiles graveyards..

    Firespouts have been amazing vs Zoo and have been easy enough to play on turn 3 consistently manabase wise (with them in your hand obv). With 4 Deathmark/4 Smother also in after boarding the only thing you have to do is make sure your opener has a good amount of removal or counters and if you live through the first 5 turns you are usually golden. I just found that without red in the deck, it's hard to live long enough vs Domain zoo to stabilize. Damnation just always would come in for me a turn or two too late where I was already at 7/8 by the time i could cast and just die the next turn to tribal flames and a burn spell that i couldn't stop bk i tapped out for Damnation. Firespout hits earilier when I'm still at 12/14 or so.

    Scapeshift as usual is pretty easy as long as you play well and don't keep bad hands (and unless they are running some super tech against just fairies (unlikely) all they are bringing in is negates)

    Elves is a tricky matchup, but if you play it slow and make sure you have smothers/mana leaks/sprites in your opener you have some game and can hopefully stop the key pieces.

    My two questions to pose are:

    firespout x3 or spell snare x3 main?
    spell snares are generally good as against almost the whole field every deck has cmc 2 cards, but my feeling lately has been that spell snares really only help you against the decks you already pretty handily beat (ie DarkDepthsThopter and Scapeshift. Firespouts are dead against those decks (unless they cant combo and try to go beatdown) but help you shore up your toughest matchup, 1 drop/domain zoo. I'm playing in the extended tournament in RI on Saturday and if the field looks like a sea of Zoo im mainboarding Spouts. Spellsnares out the board should be fine..

    Deathmark or Threads of Disloyalty in the s/b?
    if the zoo decks aren't running pridemage, stealing a goyf or knight is a HOUSE. threads also steals Marit Lage tokens and other random smaller stuff (meddling mage =)
    deathmark just kills things for less mana and its only downside is that it doesn't kill kird ape.
    I'm leaning towards deathmarks here..

    Threads is great but it is very high risk high reward. I like deathmark better.
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Winterhalter on Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:12 pm

    You can't Threads Knight. Deathmark is the better choice regardless.
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    Robert Goulet

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Robert Goulet on Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:50 pm

    Winterhalter wrote:You can't Threads Knight. Deathmark is the better choice regardless.

    I concur. The ability to roll out removal for only one-mana is really important in the fast Extended metagame. Even if you aren't casting Deathmark on turn one the ability to fit in a one-mana spell with other higher casting cost spells on later turns means that you are making a more efficient use of your mana.
    Threads may grant you more incremental advantage but it is slower and more limited in its applicaiton.
    Additionally, your removal suite is already limited on the casting cost of the opponents' spells (4 x Smother and 4 x Spellstutter). You should not limit your removal and control by the same dimension too many times. It is better that some of your removal is limited by converted mana cost and the other is limited by color so you don't have a total weakness to high casting cost creatures (Baneslayer).









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    adamt

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  adamt on Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:37 pm

    so saturday was a sad day for bostonians playing extended in RI..

    i was out after round 3...

    stomped all over scapeshift round 1

    mulled to 4 game 1 vs rubin zoo round 2.. then kept a 1 lander...
    drew a 2nd land turn 3 after he had a field full of creatures.

    game 2 was better, but he got the punishing fires gig going and kept screwing it up so i could v clique him as he was returning it at the end of my turn. i NEVER drew an extirpate while he had next to no pressure and all i could draw as trip v clique and trip bblossom.. sad panda.

    round 3 was vs deathcloud.. which *should* be a bye but...
    game 1 is pretty much in the bag as im at 4, mistbind on the board championing BB with a token out also. he's at 14, but i have another mistbind in hand and do some math in my head and figure that i can beat him before BB kills me so i mistbind my mistbind to lock him out for a turn. his next two turns are finks and Eternal Witness. uggh. i die to my BB when he is at 1.

    game 2 i beat him and never see a 3rd mana. turn 1 thoughtsieze, turn 2 BB, turn 3 jitte, turn 4/5/6 sprites... GG

    game 3 he extirpates or cranials almost my entire deck (jittes, mistbinds, cryptics) and then pithing needles my mutavaults and we end up drawing. I concede as Id rather leave and go to a party with friends in RI than fight uphill with a 1-1-1 record in a 6 round cut to top 8 tournie...

    i figure i got enough info from the tournament... the field was lots of DDT, elves combo, zoo, scapeshift... a few randoms. there were two deathclouds but they didn't fare so well.

    i guess ill see what does well in oakland before making changes to the Fae or audibling to DDT....
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    M.C. LOUD

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  M.C. LOUD on Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:42 pm

    ignore this


    Last edited by NERVO22 on Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    M.C. LOUD

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  M.C. LOUD on Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:44 pm

    How about Firespout main instead of smother/doomblade/deathmark.

    PS Familiar's Ruse is a total BLOWOUT as a one of (Suck it BEN!)
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Winterhalter on Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:08 am

    I suppose if you define "blowout" as playing a card that sometimes says UU lose a tempo, sometimes says UU win more, and is sometimes blank, yeah, it's a blowout.
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    Robert Goulet

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Robert Goulet on Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:06 pm

    Dumpley, if you assume that your deck will always be behind and always losing to a faster deck, then you will realize that Familiar's Ruse is terrible.
    Granted when you are already winning and have a Spellstutter or V-Clique in play to dispose of in that situation Familiar's Ruse is great. However, if the typical scenario is less than ideal Familiar's Ruse is no good.
    The better strategy to deckbuilding in a control deck in a fast format is to assume you will always be behind, the opponent is always faster, and you need to stop the imminent win condition from finishing you off. If you assume the worst case scenario then you should only choose cards that help you come back from behind. Familiar's Ruse does not necessarily do this.
    This is why Mana Leak is the best counterspell available for control decks - it works when you have poor mana options(hello mutavault), are getting crushed out by rampaging cats, can counterspell almost everything. Rune Snag is almost as good.

    I agree with Winterhalter. Play Essence Scatter instead of Familiar's Ruse. Essence Scatter is still a hard-coutner and works against virtually every deck in the format (save Hive Mind and Storm). If you insist on running a 1x counter, then go with Essence Scatter.





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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  jdoucette24 on Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:04 pm

    just play the 4th spell snare. its a format full of nasty 2 drops
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    adamt

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  adamt on Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:14 pm

    in the red version ive been messing around with i think ive settled on:

    4 bolts
    3 smothers
    3 spell snares

    all main

    no cryptics main.. the only deck i found it needed as a hard count was scapeshift...everything else, they just fear the fact that you could have it and play around it.

    the above lets you have a better early game and forces you to put out BB asap...

    DDT just sideboards out the 20/20 plan anyhow g2/g3 so you bring in extirpate and thoughtsieze... which is the same thing you bring in for scapeshift.

    thoughts?
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    Conelead

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Conelead on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:01 pm

    I don't like not having Cryptic main. I've settled on this:

    4x Spellstutter Sprite
    2x Mistbind Clique
    3x Vendillion Clique

    4x Ancestral Vision
    4x Mana Leak
    3x Spell Snare
    2x Cryptic Command
    4x Smother
    2x Lightning Bolt
    3x Umezawa's Jitte
    4x Bitterblossom

    4x Scalding Tarn
    2x Watery Grave
    2x Steam Vents
    1x Blood Crypt
    4x River of Tears
    4x Mutavault
    9x Island

    Sideboard (configuration 1):
    3x Firespout
    4x Thoughtseize
    2x Lightning Bolt
    4x Extirpate
    2x Open slot

    Sideboard configuration 2:
    3x Firespout
    4x Thoughtseize
    2x Lightning Bolt
    2x Extirpate
    4x Leyline of the Void

    As I mentioned on the listserv I still need 2 V. Clique, 2 Jitte and 2 Extirpate. I would also like 2 Leylines and 2 Chalice or 1 Explosives (likely the open slot in the board for conf. 1)
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  jdoucette24 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:12 pm

    your mana base doesnt have secluded glen (faeries count is down to 13 but still potentially sustainable) and IMO needs more fetch lands. you essentially on have 7 red sources. i like more so i know ill hit it. also, why blood crpyt? i suggest

    4 Mutavault
    4 Secluded Glen
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Watery Grave
    2 Steam Vents
    4 Island

    drowned catacomb may make more sense with 16 islands in the deck vs 13 faeries for secluded glen. it doesnt help with T1 visions but neither did river of tears
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    Conelead

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  Conelead on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:25 pm

    Sorry, typo. My list is 4x Glen and not 4x River of Tears. River is gone, because of the T1 Vision factor. I have found that I consistently have access to my colors if I plan it. I want extra Islands because of 3 mana red enchantments.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Fae, the solution to a combo heavy format?

    Post  jdoucette24 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:55 pm

    i still think you are way too light on the red sources. after board you have 7 red cards and 7 red sources. im playing 6 black cards in my sideboard and i have 15 black sources. you got to be able to cast your spells at the right time.

    by the way, i like your maindeck spells. looks good.


    Last edited by jdoucette24 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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