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    Tribal Flames Zoo

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    jdoucette24

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    Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  jdoucette24 on Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:16 pm

    This is my Zoo list after last night's testing.

    4 Kird Ape
    4 Wild Nacatl
    3 Loam Lion
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Qasali Pridemage

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lightning Helix
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Tribal Flames

    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Verdant Catacomb
    1 Plains
    1 Forest
    1 Stomping Grounds
    1 Sacred Foundry
    1 Temple Garden
    1 Blood Crypt
    1 Hallowed Fountain

    4 Negate
    4 Tormod's crypt
    3 Aven Mindcensor
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Ghost Quarter

    im going with 4 pridemage and 3 lion because I, unlike everyone else, think that loam lion is actually worse on the mana. temple garden is not good because you need G and W on seperate lands for knight and for pridemage and it slows your build to Domain. stomping ground then hallowed fountain are the best 2 lands by far. with this current fetch set up i have 12 ways to fetch stomping ground, temple garden, and hallowed fountain. 10 ways to fetch blood crypt and only 8 ways to get sacred foundry (not an issue as this is by far the least fetched).

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Guest on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:44 pm

    Jared, I'm not really sure what the benefit of having aven mindcensor is. It seems to me that your would rather just have meddling mage.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:16 pm

    3 reasons, when flashed in against scapeshift, it shuts off that combo. second it prevents hex/depths from transmuting or besmearching the queen for their 1 of answers and combo pieces. lastly, pikula sucks. its wicked narrow and most of the time it isnt very relevant.
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Winterhalter on Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:20 pm

    Meddling Mage is unavailable for comment because he is too busy sucking on my ding-dong.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  jdoucette24 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:56 pm

    screw being reactive, i wanna be proactive. im playing thoughtseize instead of negate in the sideboard
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  jdoucette24 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:29 pm

    Updated Zoo

    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Kird Ape
    3 Loam Lion
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Knight of the Reliquary

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lightning Helix
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Tribal Flames

    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Verdant Catacomb
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains
    1 Forest
    1 Stomping Ground (12 ways to Fetch)
    1 Hallowed Fountain (12)
    1 Blood Crypt (12)
    1 Temple Garden (10)
    1 Sacred Foundry (10)

    Sideboard
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Aven Mindcensor
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Ghost Quarter

    GUr Scapeshift:+4 T-Seize, +3 Aven, -4 Path, -3 Pridemage
    Thopter Depths:+4 t-Seize, +3 Aven, +2 GQ, -4 Helix, -4 Bolt, -1 Knight
    Faeries, Doran, Bant: +2 Jitte, -2 Helix
    Domain Zoo, Burn: +2 Jitte, -2 Flames
    Dredge:+4 T. Crypt, -4 Pridemage
    UW Control:+4 T-Seize, -4 Path
    Elves: +4 T-Seize, +2 Jitte, -4 Flames, -2 Knight
    Hypergenesis:+4 T-Seize, -4 Pridemage
    AIR: +4 T-Seize, -4 Helix/Flames
    RG Scapeshift: +4 T-Seize, +3 Aven, -4 Helix, -3 Pridemage

    dont have a plan against bigger zoo decks. probably just lose or just hope to get there on speed alone
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Winterhalter on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:17 pm

    Still think you should cut Jitte, but I'll understand if you don't. Rest of the board looks good. What happened to MD Ghost Quarter? Important to have access to this.

    Just lose to big zoo is fine, btw.
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    bobbysapphire

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  bobbysapphire on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:33 am

    hey guys, I'm a friend of Eriks he put me and a couple people on this board I don't know if he told you.

    I top 8'd with tribal zoo on 1/31 online and last night I bought into the hype of zoo decks dominating the online events the last 24 hours leading up to the ptq and ran a list similar to the one posted above but with maindeck jittes and no pridemages and it went pretty bad. I was teched for zoo and faced tron, fae, fae, thopter, hive mind, smallpox, and something else, and I lost quite a bit. I never got to attack with a knight of the reliquary in 7 rounds of magic. that seemed bad. I had previously run real hot with a version with goblin guides and only 20 lands. I write for power9pro.com and you can check out the tr with the fast zoo here.

    I'll probably sleeve this up Sunday morning at the ptq online.

    4 goblin guide
    3 steppe lynx
    4 kird ape
    4 wild nacatl
    4 tarmogoyf
    3 meddling mage

    4 helix
    4 bolt
    4 path
    2 bant charm

    4 tribal flames

    20 land

    boarding:

    2 gaddock teeg
    1 tormod's crypt
    1 yixlid jailer
    3 damping matrix
    2 ghost quarter
    3 kitchen finks
    1 deathmark
    2 ancient grudge


    I would really like some pridemages in there for jitte/bitterblossom but I don't know if they're better than meddling mage right now.
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Winterhalter on Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:14 pm

    Winterhalter wrote:Still think you should cut Jitte, but I'll understand if you don't. Rest of the board looks good. What happened to MD Ghost Quarter? Important to have access to this.

    Backpedaling on this. I now think Jitte out of the board is pretty reasonable, and MD Ghost Quarter isn't as important as I thought.
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    CorpulentLord

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  CorpulentLord on Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:05 pm

    bobbysapphire wrote:hey guys, I'm a friend of Eriks he put me and a couple people on this board I don't know if he told you.


    hey bobby deustchebag, erik isnt really yor friend he hates u ldo. he told me that u suck lol and he just uses you to borrow cards from and never return them u suck roflmao


    Last edited by CorpulentLord on Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    CorpulentLord

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  CorpulentLord on Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:06 pm

    bobbysapphire wrote:I top 8'd with tribal zoo on 1/31 online

    sapphire you nevr top8d anything except the suck dick contest at the special olympiks.

    I heard yur mom cam in thrd
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    CorpulentLord

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  CorpulentLord on Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:11 pm

    bobbysapphire wrote:I would really like some pridemages in there for jitte/bitterblossom but I don't know if they're better than meddling mage right now.

    bobby dont bothr with that crap you suck so bad at magic obvi you should prbibly stay home and play wit yur barbies roflmao. erik told me u ride the shortbus to skool and sell tricks on the carner for crayons like dirty ho lol u suck
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Winterhalter on Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:04 pm

    lol!
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    bobbysapphire

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  bobbysapphire on Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:38 pm

    haha, be careful not to let me find out who you really are
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    CorpulentLord

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  CorpulentLord on Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:42 pm

    bobbysapphire wrote:haha, be careful not to let me find out who you really are

    hey sapphire if you want to meet me come in your mommas bedroom lol and find me doing it to her doggy style rolfmao she has to pay me extra for that obvi b/c she loves taking it in the butt so much i bet you taught her how to bend over like that lol loser
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    CorpulentLord

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  CorpulentLord on Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:47 pm

    CorpulentLord wrote:
    bobbysapphire wrote:haha, be careful not to let me find out who you really are

    hey sapphire if you want to meet me come in your mommas bedroom lol and find me doing it to her doggy style rolfmao she has to pay me extra for that obvi b/c she loves taking it in the butt so much i bet you taught her how to bend over like that lol loser

    nah bobby im just kidding im jealous of how good you r u win top8 at tournment will you teach me how to play magik good like u play? i cant get my elfs to win at the storr even tho i have two nissas chosen now and got my first oranref.
    how can i win with elfs can you help?
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  jdoucette24 on Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:15 pm

    two zoo decks made top 8 at Oakland here they are

    Zoo Patrick Cox -- Top 8
    Grand Prix Oakland 2010

    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Forest
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Plains
    1 Sacred Foundry
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Steam Vents
    1 Stomping Ground
    2 Temple Garden
    1 Treetop Village
    1 Verdant Catacombs

    4 Kird Ape
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Loam Lion
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Ranger of Eos
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Wild Nacatl

    2 Bant Charm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lightning Helix
    4 Path to Exile

    Sideboard
    2 Bant Charm
    2 Damping Matrix
    1 Ghost Quarter
    4 Meddling Mage
    3 Negate
    1 Ranger of Eos
    2 Umezawa's Jitte

    Zoo Joby Parrish - Top 8
    Grand Prix Oakland 2010

    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Forest
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    1 Sacred Foundry
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Steam Vents
    1 Stomping Ground
    2 Temple Garden
    1 Treetop Village

    4 Kird Ape
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Loam Lion
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Wild Nacatl

    4 Bant Charm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Lightning Helix
    4 Path to Exile

    Sideboard
    3 Damping Matrix
    4 Meddling Mage
    4 Negate
    3 Ranger of Eos
    1 Umezawa's Jitte



    things of note
    -neither played tribal flames
    -both played ranger of eos
    -both played bant charm main
    -none played steppe lynx
    -both played 3 pridemage main
    -neither bothered with black sideboard of thoughtseize/deathmark
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Winterhalter on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:56 pm

    FWIW, it's important not to overrate single-event results. If you've come to some conclusions about your deck and understand the reasoning for them it doesn't really matter what others are doing. Cf. me playing Cannonist main last year; Noah's current Dredge sideboard.
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    Conelead

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Conelead on Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:02 pm

    I'm going to have to agree with Ben here.
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    CorpulentLord

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  CorpulentLord on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:46 pm

    Conelead wrote:I R TOTAL NOOB I DO WHETVR ERITHIZON-MAN SAYS I SUCK OBVI LOL

    conemoron stfu u cant talk about this dek obvi u suck so bad bcas u play trash like jase and tressur hunt u so dumb u like stupid wals and i lands u suck obvi

    this is the kind of gooder dek i play i win towrments all the time cuz corp lord is the king of magik crads ldo and u is stupid ubern00b u cant beat little jimmy and little jimmy is total ratahd like u lol u both retaded u be good match for each other like cripple fight roflmao or n00b fight lol u losing to jimmy would be p funny roflmao u r so bad at magik i woodnt be surprised u lose allotime cuz nervoo and i uberpwn u like n00b obvi lol




    this dek needs more litenin bolts obvi lol like 20
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:31 am

    so basically just stick to your guns and be confident in your own testing and playstyle?
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    Robert Goulet

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Robert Goulet on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:10 am

    Jared I think Ben has meant to advise you not to jump on a bandwagon of bad deck ideas just because those decks performed well at one individual tournament.

    Yes, you should trust your own instincts about what cards are good. You have been playing Zoo for quite some time - you know what cards are good and you probably value Tribal Flames and think that Ranger of Eos is too slow (I agree). If you want to test out some of these strategies by all means do so but it would be rash to blindly incorporate the choices made by others into your deck b/c they experienced some success at one single event.

    Those cards that you have found to return a high expected value should be played to the exclusion of strategies that alleged experts have used to experience momentary success.

    It would be logically inconsistent to assume that a strategy that experienced success in the past will always experience success in the future. Decks using sub-par cards and strategies occasionally win large events - this is the natural result of statistical outliers.

    @Corpulent Lord: These decks are already playing the maximum number of lightning bolt. It is against the rules of magic to play with more than 4 copies of any card besides a basic land.



    Please enjoy my music while you ponder these thoughts.

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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:35 am

    Im not suggesting im going to radically change my deck by any means. Im a huge fan of tribal flames and my main deck is locked in.

    I am considering the damping matrix in the sideboard though. I want a more aggressive answer to Thopter Foundry than damping matrix but it certainly shuts off that combo (which is a killer vs zoo). Not to mention it also costs 3 mana and cant attack. Ive tried mindcensor and it can really shine against DDT while still being aggressive. however, once the combo is down i have no way to deal with it other than pridemage. I dont think ive dedicated enough testing to that matchup yet. Everyone says its a good matchup for zoo but i wanna try it more.

    Also, a lot of people arent packing dredge hate. I hate being completely cold to a deck so im going to keep the Tormod's Crypts in the board for now (also work against Living End I guess)
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    adamt

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  adamt on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:55 am

    i guess the main question should be then:

    tribal flames or bant charm?

    do you want to kill them faster or have better game vs DDT/jitte/instants?

    speaking as someone who has never played zoo, id be inclined to go the bant charm route.

    a conditional sorcery that usually does 5 vs creature removal that also kills thopter squadron and jitte and randomly will let you win a counter war.
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Tribal Flames Zoo

    Post  Winterhalter on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:51 pm

    Burn doesn't solve problems, it eliminates their source. The primary strategy of a zoo deck is to treat creatures as recursive burn spells. The burn/removal either (1) furthers their purpose in this regard by removing blockers OR (2) finishes the job once that strategy has been invalidated. Bant Charm is "getting cute" in this regard because while it is proficient in accomplishing (1), indeed arguably better at doing so than Tribal Flames because it interacts with a broader range of cards, it has zero capacity to do (2). Many, many games are decided on your ability to carry out (2) - having only 8 spells in your deck that serve this purpose makes it noticeably less effective at this. This is all in addition to obvious considerations about higher cost and greater difficulty of casting.

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