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    Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

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    Conelead

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    Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:57 am

    Maindeck:

    Artifacts
    4 Everflowing Chalice

    Enchantments
    3 Oblivion Ring

    Instants
    4 Cancel
    1 Celestial Purge
    2 Essence Scatter
    2 Flashfreeze
    1 Negate
    1 Path To Exile

    Legendary Creatures
    1 Iona, Shield Of Emeria

    Planeswalkers
    4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

    Sorceries
    3 Day Of Judgment
    2 Martial Coup
    2 Mind Spring
    4 Treasure Hunt

    Basic Lands
    3 Island
    4 Plains

    Lands
    2 Arid Mesa
    4 Celestial Colonnade
    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Halimar Depths
    1 Scalding Tarn
    4 Tectonic Edge

    Sideboard:

    3 Baneslayer Angel
    3 Kor Firewalker
    1 Perimeter Captain
    1 Mind Control
    1 Essence Scatter
    2 Flashfreeze
    2 Negate
    1 Elspeth, Knight-errant
    1 Plains

    I was wondering what people think about this. It was one of the best-performing standard decks at the PT and I think it is worth discussing the archtype and how it develops from here.

    Things I like:
    MOAR LANDS!
    Tectonic Edge
    Martial Coup

    Things I don't like:
    1x's in sideboard
    only 3 MD DoJ
    MD Celestial Purge
    MD Flashfreeze

    I have played the list though and it is really good and fairly tight. Given the amount of time likely put into testing it by Chapin and his crew I am not going to dismiss any of the choices offhand. I'd like to get everyone's 2 cents though.

    Weissman would be proud.

    On Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Chapin said as much in his article, and I fully agree. This card is Fact or Fiction all over again. This card is as good as, if not better than Cryptic Command. I wish to add that it may very well be Skullclamp all over again (this depends very much on what is printed in the next four sets, but given that the next block is likely an artifact block, the potential is there). This card is that good.

    Some of you will balk at this statement. Some of you also disagreed with me (I remember Adam Tanner being in that camp) when I stated very boldly when Zendikar came out that mono-red was superior to Boros Bushwacker. It was my understanding of Standard as a format (having played it consistently at a competitive level since Onslaught-Mirroden) that led me to make that statement. I believe I have been proven to be vindicated on that front. The aggregate of my personal experience and knowledge of standard has led me to a similarly bold prediction with the new Jace. The card advantage generated by this man is simply disgusting, and is something I feel is only paralleled by one "fair" card that has ever been printed - the aforementioned Fact or Fiction (Ancestral Recall is not fair, sorry). This guy is Intuition + Accumulated Knowledge rolled into one, and that's if you don't untap with him in play.

    Standard in the coming year will be defined by two, maybe three pillars. Jace the Mind Sculptor and Bloodbraid Elf are now the two defining cards in T2, with an honorable mention going to Tectonic Edge (all you people who like to play mono-colored beatdown or Vampires can go rejoice at your bad Wasteland).

    I played with Fact or Fiction and I played with Skullclamp. The feeling I get when I draw Jace is the same as when I drew those two cards, and the feeling I have when he hits the opposing side of the table is the same feeling I had with those two cards. They can be beat, but BOY is it an uphill battle.

    Disbelieve me if you want, but if you want the option to play the best deck in standard for the next two years you should pick up a playset of Jaces, as there is a very good chance the best deck will contain the four mana planeswalker. Jace is for real, you can choose to play him or beat him. I am choosing the former, because I know what it is like to do the latter (I did it with skullclamp).

    This card will warp standard more than Bitterblossom/Cryptic Command or Tarmogoyf for the upcoming two years. It may not be played as much as those cards (Ironic that 1UUU in that format was easier to come by than 2UU in this format isn't it?) but it will cast a very large shadow over the decks that don't run it. Have fun with him for the next two years. I have my four.
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    adamt

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  adamt on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:33 am

    this deck is the start of a place for Jace to fit into.. but until he has a real home it just seems like a win more in most decks.

    everyone and their brother is trying to fit him into any deck with blue.

    i just buckled down and bought a playset for $125... which hurts as i could have bought them for $60, then 80, then 100 and didn't..

    i just hope they sit right around $40 a piece and ill be happy.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:58 pm

    i am by no means a blue mage but i think jace is pretty ridiculous. i like chapin/nassif's deck. they certainly aint scared to run the only real hard counter (cancel). chalice is nice as is tectonic edge. however, i dont see what you get by running the fetch lands. why not just more basics? isnt drawing lands and not doing yourself damage good for control decks

    I agree that jace, bbe, and tectonic edge are the cards that will define standard. Ill start playing standard again after this weekend and im looking forward to this format. san diego and world wake gave it some life.
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:02 pm

    The fetches are there specifically for their interaction with Halimar Depths and Jace, allowing you to shuffle away chaff. I'm guessing you haven't played much Legacy, and thus have not experienced how powerful the interaction between Brainstorm and fetchlands is. It is one of those interactions that seems okay to good on paper but is actually more powerful when you start doing it inside a game.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:22 pm

    alright ill take your word for it. i agree on paper it looks pretty loose/inconsistent.

    i also never understand random 1 of's. maybe its a pro-style to build a deck like that but ive never understood it. i like deck consistency. if you draw that 1 of that can get you out of a jam then great but some times its looks ridiculous. i just dont get it
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:28 pm

    One of the reasons to run a 1x in control (Iona is a great example) is if you are happy to draw the card in a typical game but 1) never want to draw two and 2) are perfectly capable of winning without it. I agree with you on Chapin's 1/1 Celestial Purge PtE split. That seems loose to me, although he stated in his article he doesn't like Path to Exile anymore. Some of the random 1x in the sideboard (particularly the Perimeter Captain) seem loose also. However, like I said, Chapin probably tested the hell out of the list, so I'm not going to dismiss any of the choices without more experience. I will be playing it as is for a couple weeks to see how it works.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:33 pm

    im not really referring to Iona in this case. 1x iona is fine. it is a 9 drop after all. that shit can seriously clog the hand. im more referring to the 1 negate, 1 path, 1 purge, and the other 1 of none sense in the board. i can understand a tool box approach if you have ways to get the cards you want (like transmuting).
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:36 pm

    actually im going to back track a little. I remember watching Nassif in tokyo last year in the top 8 and he had quite a few 1 ofs in his deck and i remember thinking, wow that guy can rip when he needs to, but i suppose its more of the fact that his deck could dig to those specific answers much like this deck looks to do with hallimar depths, jace, treasure hunt, mind spring and such. so i guess it can work in that regard. this deck can really get through its library
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:37 pm

    1x Path and Purge is obviously because he wants two spot removal spells, but doesn't really like either path or purge. I think he should pick one and stick to it though.

    1x Negate may be because he wants a variety of counters, so it is easier to adjust his counterspell suite post-sideboard (that is the reason for the counter selection in the board I assume).

    1x Mind Control falls under the Iona category of cards you are happy to see but perfectly happy to not see as well. Elspeth may fit here also

    1x Perimeter Captain seems incredibly loose.

    1x Plains is just there to go up to 31 mana sources in the control mirror. I've done this before myself, and it's fine.
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    Robert Goulet

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Robert Goulet on Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:45 pm

    Are there any major standard events coming up that will necessitate a competitive standard deck?

    Chingsung, are planning on playing this deck in a competitive event or just at local FNMs? I ask because I've totally checked out of playing Standard for the time being and wonder if there is any need to get back in, competitively speaking.

    If I want to play casual I think I'd prefer to play EDH.


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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:49 pm

    There are no large competitive standard events scheduled for the New England area for a bit, but given that the next few large tourneys of relevance I intend to attend will be Standard (Regionals, SCG 5k Philly, probably my next PTQ as well) I will begin preparing now. I want as much experience playing the format as possible, as not only is Standard my strongest format but all those events are ones at which I expect to perform well.

    I am planning on running this at FNMs as well as online for now just to get a feel for the deck and the various matchups.
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    Robert Goulet

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Robert Goulet on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:02 pm

    Conelead wrote:There are no large competitive standard events scheduled for the New England area for a bit, but given that the next few large tourneys of relevance I intend to attend will be Standard (Regionals, SCG 5k Philly, probably my next PTQ as well) I will begin preparing now. I want as much experience playing the format as possible, as not only is Standard my strongest format but all those events are ones at which I expect to perform well.

    I am planning on running this at FNMs as well as online for now just to get a feel for the deck and the various matchups.


    Chingsung can you please give us the dates and locations of those events? I am not as familiar with the calendar of competitive events as some.
    When and where is Regionals?
    When is the Philly 5K?
    When and where are the first few Standard PTQs?


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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:06 pm

    SCG Philly 5k is June 5 and 6, formats are Standard and Legacy
    Wizards has not officially posted information for Regionals, but it will likely be around that time also, roughly a month after the release of Rise of the Eldrazi.
    The standard PTQ season is over the summer, and I also do not know when Rob will be running those events.

    I am planning fairly far in advance because, as you know, my Saturdays are kaput until the summer. I do not have the ability to attend any large events until then, so I will be preparing for the events I can attend.
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    adamt

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  adamt on Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:08 pm

    chapin's Jace deck just won the channel fireball 5k (http://strategy.channelfireball.com/uncategorized/coverage-of-the-cf-5k-top-32/)..

    i finally buckled down to put this deck together and it just feels so abusive... like the first time i cast bloodbraid elf into blightning.

    the chalices imho make the deck. they allow you so much depth to get ahead of your opp manawise so you are casting jace, brainstorming and sitting on counter mana also. the depths/treasure hunt/brainstorming tricks are great also..

    finally a control deck i can get behind..
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:10 pm

    Yeah, this deck is pretty awesome. My favorite sequence game against vampires a while back:

    Me: Colonnade, go
    Him: Swamp, go
    Me: Plains, Chalice for 1, go
    Him: Swamp, Highborn, go
    Me: Fortress, Chalice for 1, go
    Him: Swamp, Nighthawk (Essence Scatter), go
    Me: Halimar Depths, Chalice for 2, go
    Him: Swamp, Nocturnus, go
    Me: Island, Iona?
    Him: Scoop.
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:40 pm

    So, I've decided that Chapin is wrong about the whole "sitting back and being reactive" thing. I am getting much better results using countermagic to help defend a pro-active game-plan of use board sweepers to set up 4/4 Angel-maker of doom. Here's where I'm at currently:

    4x Celestial Colonnade
    4x Halimar Depths
    4x Glacial Fortress
    3x Tectonic Edge
    1x Quicksand
    2x Scalding Tarn/Misty Rainforest
    1x Marsh Flats/Arid Mesa
    4x Island
    3x Plains

    1x Iona, Shield of Emeria

    4x Everflowing Chalice
    4x Cancel
    1x Negate
    1x Essence Scatter
    3x Oblivion Ring
    1x Path to Exile
    3x Day of Judgment
    3x Martial Coup
    3x Luminarch Ascension
    4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4x Treasure Hunt
    2x Mind Spring

    Sideboard:
    4x Baneslayer Angel
    4x Kor Firewalker
    3x Negate
    3x Flashfreeze
    1x Luminarch Ascension

    [edit] and with this post, consider yourself caught, jdoucette24
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    JohnJackson

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  JohnJackson on Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:19 pm

    I'm also jumping on the Jace bandwagon. Standard gets good turnouts for tournaments that don't really matter (regionals, champs, etc.), so when a PTQ with the destination of Amsterdam is on the line, things are going to get crazy as far as attendance goes. Jace has nowhere to go but up.
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:02 pm

    The more I play this deck the more I don't want to sit behind countermagic. It just doesn't work. I am now -1 Negate, -1 Essence Scatter, +2 Elspeth from the previous list. Being proactive is good. This is starting to feel like Accelerated Blue or Jushi Blue.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:17 am

    by the way, why O-ring over path? worried about planeswalkers? or dont want to accelerate them?
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    JohnJackson

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  JohnJackson on Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:07 pm

    O-Ring is a more versatile answer for dealing with PWs etc., and you never really want to path in the first 3-5 turns when the mana cost difference matters. You do want some amount of Path to deal with tricky sons of bitches like manlands or a Vampire Nocturnus that suddenly makes their army lethal.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:05 pm

    but why just 1? 1 ofs always bug me unless they are the 5th or something or its a game winning "dragon" that seals the deal. I feel like a second path would be good
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:23 am

    Paths are good right now. The format is moving far more towards creature-oriented builds supported by manlands, which are a huge problem for UW without paths. Countermagic is terrible right now, and I'm considering cutting ALL the countermagic from my deck. Kibler/Sam Black did that and did okay, but I don't like the tron-ish build they are on. Elspeth is da shiznit right now.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:47 am

    yea this deck needs answers to man lands. ive won a ton of game with raging ravine smashing in.

    additionally, i dont think this deck's matchup against Jund is very good. post boards i feel pretty confident against this deck. maybe im playing against bad players but other than martial coup i wouldnt say this deck is doing anything "unfair"
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    Conelead

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  Conelead on Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:54 pm

    UW control has never really done anything unfair. It's not that type of deck. UW control has always been about flexibility, versatility, and card advantage. The Jund matchup, in my experience, is hit or miss, and is very draw dependent. Chapin's list is bad against decks like Gortzen's, but as a control player you have to continuously evolve your list. Jared, I would say that your confidence against UW comes from playing against bad players who are not trying to evolve their list according to the metagame. I also think Gortzen's list is the wrong direction to take Jund, but that direction is understandable. I think, with the metagame moving towards being so creature-heavy, it is time to start increasing the maindeck removal count again. Bituminous Blast and Terminate should make a comeback, and that is good for UW.

    Also, Martial Coup is the best card in the deck.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Chapin's UW Control list and comments on Jace.

    Post  jdoucette24 on Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:27 pm

    chingsung i agree with everything you just said. i do play against terrible people at pandy

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