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    Thopter fae

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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  jdoucette24 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:24 am

    yea im not going to lie, as a zoo player, i found this matchup difficult. i didnt really know what to expect and the thopter fae turn 1 mox to leak, sprite or smother my turn 1 play on the draw is pretty rough. this deck definitely loses the synergy of normal faeries but it certainly is faster against zoo. so if that its game plan, it seems to be working.
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    Conelead

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  Conelead on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:54 pm

    Adam, does this mean I can use your Jittes? *crosses fingers* Wink
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:30 pm

    I may have 1 spare if anyone has some thirsts I can have/borrow
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:36 pm

    I've been emailing with Matej (through Facebook) and here were his suggestions for the deck from having played it at the GP:

    Throughout the weekend I lost to Ironworks, GW aggro and Zoo.
    My wins were dredge, elves, 3xZoo, 3xDD/TF and something I cant remember.

    Basically the plan against Zoo is to take out all the life loss (Blossoms and Confidants) and hope to attrition them with your removal. Main goal is to not die and then to protect your vendilion since its your main source of wins.

    Against DD/TF you go with the leyline plan which you should protect and then hope to kill them faster and not get squashed by a marit token. It's all about confidant really.

    About changes, I dunno, the only thing I really wanted was another damnation in the board and 3 thoughtseize might be correct, the evidence wasnt conclusive Smile

    About the combo, usually, against most decks, if they've seen the combo game 1 they are likely to bring in a few hate cards so I wasnt afraid to just sideboard it out.

    At times, I was able to clique them and see another matrix (1 in play) and things like ancient grudge, celestial purge etc. and I would just kill them with a protected clique.

    Usually, I left in 1 of each combo piece because once the game went long you could also combokill then and both pieces are not completely useless if you draw them (sword can be picked up by BB, foundry sacked and both discarded to thirst).


    What are your guys' thoughts?
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    Conelead

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  Conelead on Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:38 pm

    Seems fine, I would still rather throw bolts at people's faces though. Dead people can't win games.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  jdoucette24 on Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:48 pm

    after more testing last night, as a zoo player i feel more confident against the deck and i like his sideboard plan better then boarding out the combo. i honestly feel that is your total chance to win the game.
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:25 pm

    i feel much the same way... as if you (zoo) do bring in Damp Matrix, i have counters and repeals for them.
    i have creature removal for your pridemages so I just need to stay alive past turn 4/5 =)

    im going to get a more detailed s/b plan in place and post it a bit later.
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:58 am

    so here is the list i've settled on and the sideboarding plans i've thought over.
    some matchups have obvious cards to remove, others im just removing singletons as there isnt anything specific to pull out... which may be wrong but without having tested EVERY matchup, these are guesstimates:

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    3 Vendilion Clique

    11 Creatures

    4 Bitterblossom
    4 Spell Snare
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    4 Chrome Mox
    3 Smother
    3 Thopter Foundry
    2 Sword of the Meek
    2 Muddle the Mixture
    2 Repeal
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    29 Other Spells


    5 Island
    4 Mutavault
    2 River of Tears
    4 Secluded Glen
    1 Sunken Ruins
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Watery Grave

    20 Lands

    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Deathmark
    3 Damnation
    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Smother

    15 Sideboard Cards


    sideboarding plans:

    Zoo
    ----
    out - 4bb, 4 bob
    in - 3 damnation, 4 deathmark, 1 smother

    DDT
    -----
    in - 4 leyline
    out - 1 muddle, 1 jitte, 1 thopter, 1 sword

    r/g scapeshift
    ----------
    in - 4 deathmark, 1 smother, 3 thoughtsieze
    out - 2 repeal, 4 bob, 1 spell snare, 1 thirst, 1 muddle

    dredge
    ----------
    in - 1 smother, 4 leyline, 3 damnation
    out - 1 muddle, 2 thopter, 1 sword, 4 bob

    u/g scapeshift
    ----------
    in - 3 thoughtsieze
    out - 3 smother

    elves
    ----------
    in - 3 damnation, 4 deathmark, 1 smother
    out - 4 bob, 1 sword, 2 thopter, 1 muddle

    boros
    ----------
    in - 1 smother, 4 deathmark
    out - 1 muddle, 2 thopter, 1 sword, 1 bob

    rdw
    ----------
    in - 1 smother
    out - 1 bob

    teachings (?)
    ----------
    in - 4 leyline, 3 thoughtsieze, 2 deathmark
    out - 3 smother, 4 spellsnare, 1 sword, 1 jitte

    hypergenesis
    ----------
    in - 3 thoughtsieze, 3 damnation
    out - 3 smother, 4 spellsnare

    living end
    ----------
    in - 4 leyline, 3 damnation
    out - 3 smother, 4 spellsnare

    deathcloud
    ----------
    in - 3 thoughtsieze, 4 deathmark, 1 smother
    out - 4 bob, 1 reapeal, 2 thopter, 1 sword

    Affinity
    ----------
    in - 3 damnation, 1 smother
    out - 4 bob

    AIR
    ----------
    in - 3 thoughtsieze, 3 damnation
    out - 3 smother, 1 sword, 2 foundry

    doran (?)
    ----------
    in - 3 damnation, 4 deathmark, 1 smother
    out - 4 bob, 2 repeal, 1 thopter, 1 sword

    conley woods special bant (?)
    ----------
    in - 1 smother, 4 deathmark
    out - 2 repeal, 1 bob, 1 bb, 1 thopter

    if any of you are playing these decks and think i should be boarding otherwise for them, certainly correct me here.
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  jdoucette24 on Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:12 am

    is 4 deathmark really the right plan to battle 4 steppe lynxs in the Boros deck? seems narrow
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:21 am

    they will most likely have 3 grunts post board... otherwise i only have 4 smothers 2 repeal to deal with their early rushes.
    Chris, your thoughts?
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    Winterhalter

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  Winterhalter on Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:22 am

    I agree with Jared's comment. Why would they bring in Grunt vs. you? It doesn't really help vs. the Thopter combo, does it? It's a predictable trigger - just plan to have the Sword in play when it happens.

    Also, I am not sure you should be taking out a Muddle vs. R/G Scapeshift. Cards that counter Scapeshift are good, and I think most players would leave it in vs. you.
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:30 am

    for some reason i was under the assumption that r/g scape would be bringing out some of the scapeshifts to go more the blood moon route or perhaps the thought hem/cranial route..

    maybe pulling another spell snare out is better as you only have goyf/pun fi to counter and i have tons of removal for goyfs and pun fi just keeps coming back anyhow =(
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  jdoucette24 on Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:35 pm

    im bringing in 2 deathmark against boros because they will bring in jotun grunt against me and 2 wont clog up the hand the way 4 could.

    also agree with ben. keep muddle in for scapeshift
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:31 pm

    i ended up going 5-1-2 at the ptq and it honestly felt like i was running the best deck there or at least felt i had good game against every deck there.

    r1 zoo
    he drew 4 nacatls first game, i easily win the 2nd and 3rd games on the back of smothers deathmarks and damnation.

    r2 boros
    i made a mistake early game one assuming she was playing zoo and made a play error that let her get the stupid flagstones trick off that turn. game 2 i handily won and game three she just kept drawing dead when i was nearly dead and i couldn't keep a creature on the board to kill her other than to get a few jitte counters every so often. she made a critical play error when i cast v clique and she shows me her hand with two burn spells that she could have killed me with but didn't try to cast in response.
    it ended up being a draw which i cant complain about as that deck is prolly my worst matchup.

    r3- lark
    bad revilark deck with body double nonsense... handily beat in two games

    r4 - u/w jace-thopter combo
    i walk over him first game as he doesn't seem really sure how to attack this deck and i get an early bob. game 2 we both mull to 5 i bring in 2 deathmarks (for bsa i know he has sb). i get turn 0 leyline and get an early bob but he kills the first one and then later on steals my second one with threads but has to wrath the board away while i have BB generating tokens. time is called and he topdecks a cryptic to tap down my team and attack with the sphinx (that he saw on top with a previous one and was going to kill him with my bob) and BB kills me during my upkeep for the draw. In hindsight we figured out that one of us just should have conceded and we both would have prolly made top 8 as we would have just faced the elf decks and hive mind instead of what we did.

    r5 - time sieve combo
    it just looks like he is playing u/w/b thopter but it really is never close and a g2 turn 0 leyline stops him cold and the fae do their job.

    r6 - scapeshift
    g1 i draw spellsnares/sprites for his land search and kill him thopter combo and BB tokens
    g2 i have him down to about 8 from mutavaults/v cliques. i v clique him while i have a handful 2 spell snares and get rid of his scapeshift and voila.. he topdecks the next one. ugggggh.
    g3 runs roughly the same way as i get him down to 5 and v clique him and see he has 2 lands in his hand. next turn he topdecks scapeshift and i had no hard counters as i had stupidly used a muddle to stop a peer through depths which prolly cost me the game.

    i was boarding in thoughtsiezes for this matchup and honestly they should just be negates. negates would come in vs boros and also all the other combo decks and fill the same role as TS. id rather sit back on a hard counter (muddle or negate for the scapeshift)and have a ssnare or sprite for his counters.

    r7 - boros
    i got a turn 1 chrome mox both games with a smother or sprite in hand. he never really was either of these games as i got thopter combo going g1 and g2 he just never got any of the ghost quarter tricks going when he had an open attack.

    r8 - zoo
    i won a close game 1 as i got thopter combo going when i was at 4 and he wouldn't concede. i killed him a few turns later and he was stewing. i board in 4 deathmark, 3 damnation and 1 smother. turn 1 i get a chrome mox imprinting damnation. i had a 2nd in my hand as well as a smother. he acts blown away when i damnation away his 3 creatures that he overplayed. i v clique him the next turn to see two lands. he has a loam/kird in play and his next draw is a knight that just gets wrathed away with my 3rd damnation. i kill him a few turns later with a jitte equiped mutavaults while holding a handful of counters from thirsts.

    -----

    the only changes to the deck i would make would probably be playing a 3rd muddle main over the 1st repeal and a 2nd jitte for the 2nd repeal. that and the thoughtsiezes in the board should be negates as there is just too much random combo nonsense in the ptq arena that negate works better for.
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    Conelead

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  Conelead on Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:16 pm

    Why couldn't I have had your first four round pairings instead of mine?
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:29 am

    im roughly playing the same main deck as last weekend (i fit in the 4th smother main) but im torn a bit with my sideboard:

    here are the definites:

    4 deathmark
    3 damnation
    4 leyline of the void

    here are the possibles for the last 4 slots which I want to shore up my scapeshift/control/combo matches with:

    1 hurky's recall (mainly for thopter mirror, and only 1 bk i can tutor for it with muddle.. it is also a-ok vs tezz and affin)

    3/4 negates (help with the scapeshift matchup, which with this version of fae i've found ive not enough counters usually to get through a scapeshift with remand backup.. they can also come in vs boros and zoo in place of repeals/etc)

    3/4 thoughtsiezes (vs scapeshift and control mirrors.. altho my gut feeling after last weekend is that id rather have negates and sit on them than thoughtsieze and whiff)

    3 glen elandra archmage (good vs control and scapeshift.. not as versatile as negates but could also come in vs zoo/aggro.. my hesitation is that it im not casting it til i have 5 mana and the cost of it as opposed to negate/thoughtsieze)...


    thoughts?
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    Robert Goulet

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  Robert Goulet on Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:13 am

    Adam these four slots in your sideboard need to be dedicated to beating control. I agree with you that Archmage is too slow.

    Negate seems like a realistic choice because it is a 2-mana hard counter and works quite well against combo as well as control. I support negate.

    A 1x Hurkyl's Recall also seems like a decent choice against Thopter Combo and Affinity.
    Remember that Hurkyl's targets one player, which makes it a blowout against another thopter deck and really helps you pull ahead.
    Additionally, Recall can be transmuted for with Muddle the Mixture, adding to the synergy of the deck to tutor up a necessary tool.

    I like Hurkyl's Recall for its power, but Recall is a card of limited focus that is only good against artifact-heavy decks. Negate is more flexible and reliable.

    Lastly, you may want to consider playing 1x or 2x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. I have seen other control decks in the current metagame playing Teferi to great success. Teferi is an instant, which makes it more reliable as a control card than the Archmage. Teferi's raw power to completely nullify all of your opponents' counterspells cannot be overlooked.

    You may want to test Teferi to see how it works out. I've heard good results on this card.

    Matt Costa, do you want to weigh on this? You've been playing control in Extended and I believe you tested out Teferi?

    Putting 3x Negate and 1x Hurkyl's Recall seems like a realistic choice. Teferi is certainly more powerful, but his expected value is a little hard to determine without substnatial testing.

    Enjoy this classic hit while you consider your sideboard.
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    Matt C

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  Matt C on Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:07 pm

    A few comments about the Thopter Fae sideboard:
    1.) Wanting Hurkyll's Recall against thopter decks implies a fundamental misunderstanding of the matchup. You plan to beat thopter decks postboard via 4 leyline of the void and assorted permission. If you have let it get to the point where you want to be bouncing tokens and thopter foundry, you have already lost the game. There are scenarios where we might want to get foundry off the board in the early game, before they can combo, but that is what repeal is for. Recall is very narrow, and isn't even good against the matchup that you suggest bringing it in against.

    2.) I am personally a huge fan of Thoughtseize. I find tremendous value in the information it gives us access to, along with vendilion clique. While negate might be better at directly answer the card scapeshift, thoughtsieze allows us to proactively disrupt them and gain valuable information to formulate our line of play. Scapeshift is a nigh-unlosable matchup, as we have more answers than they have relevent threats, in addition to a relatively speedy clock compared to most control decks. I don't like the idea of overloading on reactive cards post board in control matchups. Thoughtseize also has a much broader series of applications across the field. It is exceptional against thopter depths and dredge (particularly when our post sideboard plan is to protect leyline), as well as in the mirror and all other combo decks. (living end, hypergenesis, etc)

    3.) I generally like teferi, but I think that the faeries deck is a little too streamlined and mana light to take advantage of him. I liked teferi in the UW gifts deck because it allowed us to power out baneslayers that they couldn't easily answer. Teferi has gotten considerably worse as the metagame has shifted towards thopter decks, and I'm not sure I like it very much in our strategy anyway.

    I would personally fill the last 4 sideboard slots with 3 thoughtsieze and a lone darkblast, although I could understand the arguement for an additional muddle or negate.
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:22 pm

    went 5-1-2 again at the ptq AGAIN... with thopter fae
    i should have listened to my gut and ran a singleton hurkyl's recall in the board over a darkblast as it would have won me a match vs DDT and i never saw an elves match.

    rounds went:
    -ran over u/b fae round 1 with turn 1 bob or BB both games. there was a point where he tries to cast a a mistbind turning my upkeep where all he has is a sprite and a 1 mana to activate his mutavault. I respond by repealing his sprite and playing one of my own raw (ie no other fae on the table) to which he taps his 1 blue mana to spell snare my sprite and puts his mistbind in the bin..LOL. =)

    -lost to Chase playing Dredge round 2 because of a play error g2 as I had leyline on the board with a handful of countermagic and played v clique on his endstep to get leyline echoing truthed in response.

    -beat a Noah playing dredge round 3 where he mulled to 4 both games. I had nuts draws both games vs him and turn 0 leyline game 2 which he promptly kros gripped but he ran out of gas.

    -handily beat Brian Lynch playing conley woods bant deck who conceded to me game 1 turn 3 when i played a jitte after I had a turn 1 mox/ BB, turn 2 counter your goyf. game 2 i mul to 4 and he kills me with a stag. Game 3 i get turn 1 bb, turn 2 counter your goyf, turn 4 counter your jace MC and he concedes in a huff

    -drew with r/g scapeshift as i won g1 easily, mulled to 4 and never drew 3rd land game 2 and barely lost and neither of us could get there game 3

    -draw with Thopter Depths where i walk over him game one, game 2 he gets DOUBLE thoughtsieze on me off a mox/swamp to take both Bob and BB before I even get a turn... not lucky or anything. Game 3 we both get thopter combo going and i don't see a leyline until we are both in our 30's lifewise and i sat on muddles the whole game that would have transmuted for a recall had i had them in the board. on turn 4 of turns he EE's for 2 to clear the board and is left with 4 thopter tokens and me with a thirst/chrome mox/muddle in my hand.. He asks for me to concede as he says he "obviously has the advantage on the board and would win given time".. HUH? we are both at 30-35 life and im about to draw 3 cards and muddle for something. Neither of us will have a chance to make top 8 with a draw, but he was such a jerk the whole match that there is no way im conceding to him.

    -beat some odd mono b vampires deck.. not a bad deck but an easy match for 4 ssnare and 3 smothers

    -beat zoo in the last round again.. which practically feels like a bye post board.

    overall i like the deck still and there's two more ptq's at the end of the month in maine and montreal..

    top 8 at the ptq was:

    chestermite (u/r fae deck with pestermite kiki jiki combo in it)
    THREE bant zoo
    naya zoo with scapeshifts
    hive mind
    living end
    elf combo
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    jdoucette24

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  jdoucette24 on Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:44 pm

    im assuming that naya zoo with scapeshift is flez. gross
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:36 pm

    jdoucette24 wrote:im assuming that naya zoo with scapeshift is flez. gross

    you are correct sir.. and it was ugly.
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    adamt

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    Re: Thopter fae

    Post  adamt on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:41 pm

    and out of the woodwork when im just about to move on from the deck it places 1st and 3rd in yesterday's online PTQ

    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/1043596

    does anyone know who Omniknight is?
    or any easy way to matchup people's MTGO online names to names IRL?

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    Re: Thopter fae

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